Arnott Air Springs
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Thread: Arnott Air Springs

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Arnott Air Springs

    Although I have yet to have any problems with my air suspension, I fear that problems are going to start popping up any day now.

    I have a 2002 HSE with a little over 60,000 miles on it -- all highway and city driving.

    I was researching the Arnott air springs. My question to those of you whom are vastly more knowledgeable on the topic than I am, is whether going ahead and swapping out my springs for the Generation II springs would be a worthwhile, proactive move. According to their site, a new set would run about $600. From what I've heard from others, this sounds like a reasonable investment in preventative maintenance.

    Thoughts....
    2002 Range Rover 4.6 HSE
    2008 Range Rover SC

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  3. #2
    Premium Member paul.adshead's Avatar
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Search (button top right) is your friend.

    Here's an example search:
    search.php?keywords=arnott+III&terms=all&author=&s c=1&sf=all&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&sub mit=Search

    One thread from last month was interesting:
    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26578
    Paul
    '97 4.6 HSE, LPG dual-fuel, Arnott G3s

  4. #3
    SENIOR ROVER Stevemfr's Avatar
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    I'm also a big fan of encouraging people to search for themselves as opposed to being spoonfed (saw that on another forum - think it's good ) - but in this case the question was a rather specific 'should I replace the springs proactively' not 'are Arnotts good or bad' or 'which Arnotts etc.'. I didn't search but I don't remember this question having been asked like this before.

    My answer: Do you have a lot of time and money now and are expecting that situation to change dramatically in the near future? Then maybe. You could poss even sell your old bags on ebay as used but working and recoup part of your costs - which you can't do (with a clear conscience) once they leak. Would I do it? As airbags generally don't fail catastrophically and leave you stranded, and as you can get replacements w/in 24 hrs - no. If you're that worried (virtual slap on the back of the head), pump your car up and unplug your eas timer every couple of months. If the car has dropped at any corner after 12-18hrs, you can pull out soap water and a spray bottle and investigate.

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  6. #4
    JUNIOR ROVER
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    I don't think I would replace them proactively, just yet. I'd sure enough order them, so that, I had them on hand say 15-20k miles later.

    If you are thinking about the genII bags, I'd recommend just getting the arnott air bag replacements, simply to save yourself 200 bucks.

  7. #5
    Guest

    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    It seems to me that airbag failure is more a function of age than anything else. I wouldn't do it yet for a 2002.

  8. #6
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Not exactly sure how my question merited your sarcastic response Paul. If you had taken the time to actually read my post, you would have noticed the line stating, "I was researching the Arnott air springs". I had already looked at the thread you posted and at no point throughout the responses was the question I posed ever dealt with.
    2002 Range Rover 4.6 HSE
    2008 Range Rover SC

  9. #7
    FOUNDING MEMBER
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    I would not change them until you need to. I changed to the Arnott 2 on my 1997 P38 and three years later one went out. My indy shop replaced it for free under the lifetime warrenty, including labor. Much better than LR's standard 12 month warrenty. I now have them all the way around and have no worries about the future.
    Silver 1997 4.6 SSE and Red 2004 4.4 HSE

  10. #8
    Premium Member paul.adshead's Avatar
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Quote Originally Posted by tjh2dUVA
    Not exactly sure how my question merited your sarcastic response Paul. If you had taken the time to actually read my post, you would have noticed the line stating, "I was researching the Arnott air springs". I had already looked at the thread you posted and at no point throughout the responses was the question I posed ever dealt with.
    There was no scarcasm in there. You'd know if there was. Also, it'd have several in there too. Like this

    When helping people out, one of the ways to try and gauge their previous interaction with the site, is to look at post count. Given as yours was just into double figures, it hinted that you hadn't spent much time here. I've spent long enough helping people out, that after a while it's easier to point them back to search, than write the same stuff again (- I've done both in the past). I even did the hard work and gave you a link to click. Re "I was researching the Arnott air springs", then yes, but you made no mention of searching the site - you could have been looking on the internet or Arnotts website, or talking to your mates.

    ----

    I bought my Gen IIIs after I started to getting EAS FAULTs in cold weather. If you haven't seen any faults yet, save your money.

    One last place to check to make your mind up, is to watch Storey's video "Do I Need New Air Springs?" on this page http://www.rswsolutions.com/media.htm. (Links to Storey's site turn up in many EAS/air-spring related searches).
    Paul
    '97 4.6 HSE, LPG dual-fuel, Arnott G3s

  11. #9
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Agree with stevemfr. Airbag failure is rarely catastrophic. Usually begins with a small leak that warns you that something is amiss even before you begin getting EAS faults. Once you notice the leaking and confirm that it is from an air bag, you can then seek replacement. But, don't ignore the warning signs of air leaks and an air suspension that drops to the bumpstops overnight and/or has difficulty rising to full height, or you will get stuck on the bumpstops, and I guarantee that will happen when you are a long way from home.

    I recently replaced my original front air springs due to a leaky front right side. 2001 model at about 80-85,000 miles. I did both although there were no obvious issues with the left side. Original rears are fine. I'm not going to touch them until they show symptoms.

    Brett
    2001 30th Anniversary Edition RR (Sold)

  12. #10
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    My question would be why the Gen 2 over the Gen 3s. That is a decision I can't understand. If you are going to get your hands dirty you might as well get some kind of performance upgrade in the bargain. I say go with the Gen 3s and git-r-dun. They don't take all that long to install and you will have peice of mind and one known hassle box to check off.

  13. #11
    FOUNDING MEMBER
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Frogs
    My question would be why the Gen 2 over the Gen 3s. That is a decision I can't understand. If you are going to get your hands dirty you might as well get some kind of performance upgrade in the bargain. I say go with the Gen 3s and git-r-dun. They don't take all that long to install and you will have peice of mind and one known hassle box to check off.
    You only really need gen3 if you want or need the extended hieght travel. Most people don't need that or the higher price.
    Silver 1997 4.6 SSE and Red 2004 4.4 HSE

  14. #12
    Premium Member paul.adshead's Avatar
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Quote Originally Posted by marcpablo
    You only really need gen3 if you want or need the extended height travel. Most people don't need that or the higher price.
    Au contrair.

    The Gen I's & II's have the same/similar original piston profile. This gives low-spring-rate at highway and high-spring-rate at extended. This is the exact OPPOSITE of what you actually want!

    The Gen III's have the corrected piston profile. This gives high-spring-rate at highway and low-spring-rate at extended. This is what you want for better 'dynamic stability' at higher speed/ highway setting and better traction over rough ground, at low speed/extended setting.

    Both the Gen II & III have the crimp seals to reduce/stop air leakage.
    Paul
    '97 4.6 HSE, LPG dual-fuel, Arnott G3s

  15. #13
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Crimp seals - should have been made that way OEM - GenIII's are the way to go.
    97 4.0, Gen III's, BFG 265/75 TA KO's - usually muddy from being used as a divining rod for deep water in the desert.

  16. #14
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    Below is one's of Paul's posts from a thread that he linked above.

    My experience, observing what he has posted over a long period of time, has been that Paul's conclusions are consistently based upon - hold onto whatever you hold onto - sound scientific reasoning. In those areas in which he knows his stuff, I would nearly always post "Yeah, what he said", which is what I am doing a characteristically long-winded version of doing right now.

    Or maybe he just has me buffaloed. But I do know that he does some very fancy pants engineering for a living.

    That's not a jab against anybody else posting here. Everyone here generally has more than one area/topic in/upon which he is expert.

    That's an unsolicited testimonial.

    (Paul is, however, dead wrong about iPods. iPods are, in fact, lame and stupid, including their user interface. But, then, nobody's perfect).


    Quote Originally Posted by paul.adshead
    GEN III front diagram
    http://www.arnottindustries.com/file...173&Size=SMALL

    GEN II front diagram
    http://www.arnottindustries.com/file...160&Size=SMALL

    With the cut-through views like above, the way you compare the effective-spring-rates, is by comparing the width of the piston, at the point where the bellows folds over itself. With the GEN IIIs the piston has a larger diameter (= harder spring rate) when the spring is shorter overall. With the GEN IIs the piston has a larger diameter (= harder spring rate) when the spring is longer overall.


    Data from the docs linked above, comparing spring rates.
    Code:
              GEN II   GEN III
    Extended  175      155
    Normal    155      170
    Highway   129      225
    (all units lb/inch)

    There you can clearly see the spring rates increase the 'wrong way' on the GEN IIs, but the 'right way' on the GEN IIIs. Whilst the values at Extended and Normal are similar (but opposite), it is the values at Highway that makes the bulk of the difference. The GEN IIIs have nearly 75% greater spring rate at Highway, when compared to the GEN IIs - this is a lot.

    There is a section of road I travel on every day that is very badly rutted. With the GEN IIIs in Normal, it glides over them very smoothly, however if I drop to highway, it is a very much harder/responsive ride (and that's just a 32% increase (=225/170)).
    P38: 1999 Bosch

  17. #15
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    Re: Arnott Air Springs

    yeah, what he said. about 1% of the springs I sell are GenII's, either standard belows (GenI) to save money, or GenIII for an upgrade, genII is half way between and a compromise either way. I wouldn't be supprised if the GenII's go away in the future.

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