Diesel or not?
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Thread: Diesel or not?

  1. #1
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    Diesel or not?

    My current RR, a 96HSE with 195K on the clock, is a top unit but I am in a position soon where I will be able to upgrade and am looking at a second hand/demo L322 model.
    Here in Australia the L322 are still in the original owners hands and under LR warranty. The diesels are common the secondhand market but I cannot find a V8 under $100k.
    Ive taken a 02 diesel out for a spin with a LR dealer and it was quite quick but I'm still not convinced that I want an oil burner.
    My question is after all that is - What are they actually like in the real world? and as the fuel is 10-15% dearer here than petrol/gas what economy like? - I mean not the bulldust they quote on the glossy brochure - rather, what happens when the vehicle is loaded with kids, toys, dogs, windows open, radio blaring and in stop/start school traffic! although my current RR see's all sorts of driving, including offroad, its the around town economy that matters the most.
    This is a major investment in future motoring for me and I want to be sure.
    TTFN
    MJS
    Mornington, Vic. AU
    1996 HSE (Rosie) - Play toy
    1998 Ford Falcon (Rocket) - work vehicle
    2003 VW Kombi (Ruby) - family bus

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  3. #2
    FOUNDING MEMBER
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    If you're interested in real world economy it's got to be the diesel!

    I get between 22 and 25 mpg average from my DMS tuned TD6 which is not bad considering it will still keep pace with the V8.

    However refinement is not quite as good as the petrol and you're always aware you've got an oil burner under the bonnet!

    Here in the UK, residuals are stronger on diesel models although thats more to do with high fuel prices than anything else.

    Its obvioulsy down to personal preference at the end of the day but my advice would be:- get the petrol if you don't mind the significantly higher running costs, but you'll not be dissapointed with the diesel alternative if you decide to go for that.

  4. #3
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    I am facing the same quandery here in the UK:

    Diesel fuel costs more than unleaded petrol here, but the petrol has a larger tank. Therefore the cost to fill up each is near enough identical at the pump. I test drove a TD6 for a weekend and I'm normally pretty good at getting higher mpg out of my cars. I saw 21mpg from the diesel, and the performance compared to the V8 was not exciting at all. In fact I thought it was smooth, but dull.

    I have set my heart on the V8, and will suffer the 5mpg less I get out of it, and be happier over the long term in terms of vehicle enjoyment. When you're spending that type of money, is a few pounds/dollars per month more on fuel really going to make THAT much difference?

    My dad bought a P38 Diesel 4 years ago and has regretted it ever since, luckily this year he's also getting an L322 model. I don't plan to make the same mistake.
    2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 : Stornoway/Jet, RSE DVD, Hybrid TV, Privacy Glass

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  6. #4
    Tim
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    I have a TD6 and it is a nice engine, not exactly a ball of fire and can be a bit gruff when you try to welly it but then who buys a heavy wagon with a relatively small and light on power, diesel to play at boy racers!
    It has quite enough go at high speeds and is very quiet when cruising on the motorway, for a diesel. I have seen a best of 30mpg sat all day on the cruise control on a 500 mile run from Glasgow to Southampton - so if you are careful good consumption is possible, I live in a rural area with great fast local roads and average 23-25mpg in normal driving (minimal town driving though) I drove a new 2.7TDV6 powered Disco/LR3 recently and have to admit it is quieter and as smooth as the BMW unit. Interestingly my TD4 Freelander Automatic was quicker acclerating and mechanically quieter than my TD6 RR, it certainly was not quieter from a wind noise point of view though, the RR is very ipressive from that point of view and the LR3/New Disco even more so.
    It might be worth waiting for the 2006 models to arrive before you make any decisions as the 4.2l V8 is also a pretty impressive beast!
    Fuji White Evoque SD4 Coupe Dynamic Lux auto with Plus Pack, heated steering wheel, privacy and tow pack - now on my drive
    Stornoway Grey TDv8 Vogue Range Rover with Ivory interior and a few extras - Gone
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  7. #5
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    Thankyou all.
    Here in Au the Diesels appear not to hold their value quite the same as the V8 - curently the only vehicles available on the market are all diesels. I think we don't like anything but a V8 in a prestige vehicle with a "if you can afford a Rangie, you can afford the fuel" type attitude.
    The P38a Diesel was not imported to Au so there is no bench mark or previous owners for me to look at.
    I am not in position to purchase a new one (I wish) but a ex demo might be in range but I will have to wait a little longer for my beloved V8
    TTFN
    MJS
    Mornington, Vic. AU
    1996 HSE (Rosie) - Play toy
    1998 Ford Falcon (Rocket) - work vehicle
    2003 VW Kombi (Ruby) - family bus

  8. #6
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    It's always interesting to hear other's Range Rover experiences from around the world. Having lived in Australia for a short while I can understand why the diesel (sometimes referred to over here as the Disease-All) is not popular in Australia.

    Your fuel is so cheap comparitively (I know you gripe about the prices increasing, I was there in December and it made me smile as you still pay a Lot less than us in the UK) that petrol cars are still more popular than diesels, paricularly in cities and towns anyway. For serious outback driving I guess the majority go for Japanese diesels like the Toyota and Nissan. Afterall, at 16-20mpg tops, the RR 4.4 V8 does not give you a lot of range in Aus', unless you take a trailer full of Jerry cans...

    Still, we all know which is the nicer vehicle!!
    2007 Range Rover Vogue SE TDV8 : Stornoway/Jet, RSE DVD, Hybrid TV, Privacy Glass

  9. #7
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRUK
    I am facing the same quandery here in the UK:

    Diesel fuel costs more than unleaded petrol here, but the petrol has a larger tank. Therefore the cost to fill up each is near enough identical at the pump. I test drove a TD6 for a weekend and I'm normally pretty good at getting higher mpg out of my cars. I saw 21mpg from the diesel, and the performance compared to the V8 was not exciting at all. In fact I thought it was smooth, but dull.

    I have set my heart on the V8, and will suffer the 5mpg less I get out of it, and be happier over the long term in terms of vehicle enjoyment. When you're spending that type of money, is a few pounds/dollars per month more on fuel really going to make THAT much difference?

    My dad bought a P38 Diesel 4 years ago and has regretted it ever since, luckily this year he's also getting an L322 model. I don't plan to make the same mistake.
    I tend to agree with this sentiment. Unless you live in a country where you will be taxed heavily or otherwise brought to your knees by tarriffs for owning a V8, I really dont see why its even a point of contention on a vehicle of this calibre.

    Ian.

  10. #8
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Best thing is to drive both back to back and decide what to go for. I went for the V8.

    For me the diesel was a real let down as it keeps reminding you its there in both lack of pace and refinement. Afterall the interior / ext is very refined.

    Also, sit down and do a 'real' calculation on how much you will realy save and is it worth it.

    I find it costs 25p per mile in fuel to run the V8 with a mix of city/motorway trafic. If you do say 8k miles this is a fuel bill of £2k (in the UK), not so bad realy. If you went for the diesel and assume the diesel does 25mpg while V8 17mpg and taking fuel prices in the UK as...

    83.9p diesel
    79.9p UL

    So will cost 25p * (83.9/79.9) * (17/25) = 17.9p per mile

    So your diesel bill for 8k miles will be 1432, saving £568 per yr.

    Remember you will probably pay more to buy your used TD over the V8 and you will probably find it doesnt matter one way or the other

  11. #9
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    What I'd really like to see soon in the RR is a V8 based turbo diesel such as the ones that can be found in the top of the line German sedans such as Audi, BMW, etc. Giving us a diesel with about 250-275 bhp and over 400 lb ft of torque, while returning about 20 mpg would be awesome. The engine characteristics would actually reflect the way these vehicles are driven in the real world where torque is 'king' and ultimate hp and top speed means very little. I live in the States where petrol is still incredibly cheap compared to home, (the UK), but I'd trade my '03 RR in and buy a diesel RR tomorrow if such a beast as above existed.
    Are you listening LR/Ford??
    RRS S/C Bonatti Grey/Ebony/Cherry with PTI; RSE; Rear Diff Lock and Sirius

  12. #10
    Tim
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    Bishman, just wait a little longer - talk is that the replacement for the TD6 BMW will be the new V8 4.0 TD from the new Jaguar XJ due to be launched soon. That should resolve any power and refinement worries that folks may have. In view of the fine engine the TDV6 in LR3/Discovery is (the diesel from the S type Jag with only one of the turbos ) I see no reason why the bigger V8 should not be just as good if not better.
    Fuji White Evoque SD4 Coupe Dynamic Lux auto with Plus Pack, heated steering wheel, privacy and tow pack - now on my drive
    Stornoway Grey TDv8 Vogue Range Rover with Ivory interior and a few extras - Gone
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  13. #11
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    Tim,
    Thanks for the info. If true that would be excellent news. Now we just have to wait for the US to get rid of the high amounts of sulphur in our diesel fuel; (supposed to happen in 2006).
    The new diesel in the Disco is also excellent from what I've read; however I'd like even more hp/torque. With the cheap fuel we have here I'm willing to sacrifice a few mpg's to obtain better performance from the V8 diesel you talk of.
    Bish
    RRS S/C Bonatti Grey/Ebony/Cherry with PTI; RSE; Rear Diff Lock and Sirius

  14. #12
    Tim
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    There is no comparison between the TD6 in RR and TDV6 in Disco3 - Disco 3 wins hands down. TDV6 is only 2.7l but is so smooth and a whole lot quieter than the TD6- it really is difficult to tell the petrol powered Disco 3 , there is so little rattle and vibration from the diesel TDV6 powered one, however TDV6 is more powerful (190kw and 440nm torque) than the TD6 (130kw and 390nm of torque). TDV6 pushes out of 2.7l almost what the UK spec V8 4.4l petrol gives you - 210kw and 440nm!
    I read in Land Rover Enthusiast yesterday than the 4.0l V6 Petrol engine for TDv6 is now ready to launch on the world markets (but not the UK!) and it too is supposed to be a very fine engine.

    At our current prices of fuel and with roads as congested as we have on our small island I would rather sacrifice a bit of acceleration and have a few miles per gallon more. I can get nearly 29mpg (imperial gallons) easily on a run in my TD6 - I'm not worried about travelling at wild speeds on a drive that is going to take me 8-10 hours and prefer to sit back and cruise at 70 -75 in and watch the fuel computer creep up! At the end of the day how much do you really save screaming along at high speed rather than cruising in the lovely surrounding of the inside of a RaRo.
    We are well known for having a tight hold on our money up here in Scotland!!
    Fuji White Evoque SD4 Coupe Dynamic Lux auto with Plus Pack, heated steering wheel, privacy and tow pack - now on my drive
    Stornoway Grey TDv8 Vogue Range Rover with Ivory interior and a few extras - Gone
    Stornoway Grey TDv8 HSE - Gone

  15. #13
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    Tim,
    I was very surprised when LR did not place the excellent new TDV6 in the '06 RR's, at least until the TDV8 is ready. It really is a great engine as you state.
    The US with its penchant for pick-ups and SUVs desperately needs to 'jump on the diesel train'. If all of our huge number of SUVs, etc. were powered by clean diesels like you have in Europe, it would markedly reduce oil importation.
    I have the 4.4 V8 in my '03 of course, but am surprised that in an approximate mix of 60% 'highway' and 40% town driving I have returned an average of 14.9 mpg, (US). This equates to 18.65 mpg Imperial, and I do not 'pussy foot' around while driving either. Fuel consumption seems somewhat dependent on tyre pressures. I have increased my average by 0.5 - 1 mpg, (US), by going to 38 psi front and 42 psi rear pressures. Ride comfort only marginally decreased.
    Bish
    RRS S/C Bonatti Grey/Ebony/Cherry with PTI; RSE; Rear Diff Lock and Sirius

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