2018 sport - throttle delay - Page 4
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Thread: 2018 sport - throttle delay

  1. #46
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by bill2019 View Post
    After speaking with some folks there has been software updates for the transmission but NONE so far specifically for dealing with the DELAY issue. Once there is one I am sure it will be updated in Topix.
    Care to be more specific? Which "folks" did you speak with? Have you had the transmission and gateway module updates applied to your vehicle? If so, did they have any effect? If you haven't had the updates, then how would you know whether the "delay" is still there?
    2019 RRS SCV8 ATB L494, Indus Silver
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  3. #47
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Cant tell if you are being a bit hostile with your comment... But even so, I have been deep into this issue and have been in contact with people within the industry and so far nothing has come through the pipeline with anything addressing the expected delay. When it does it will come with specific notes stating so.

    The TCM and GWM update that JAGAUR27 had installed seems like just a regular update addressing some issue his vehicle might have been out of date or by the DTC code might have been corrupt. Perhaps that update helped him in some way. My contacts stated that there has been new updates issued for several modules in the last 3 months but none specifically tagged with the delay.

    As I stated in the l405 thread the delay is related to the transmission programming and not to the Vehicle model or to the engine except for the diesel.
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  4. #48
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by bill2019 View Post
    As I stated in the l405 thread the delay is related to the transmission programming and not to the Vehicle model or to the engine except for the diesel.
    you would think something like just reprogramming a transmission curve would be fairly straightforward, its just soooo frustrating that they won't fix this. And I've only been dealing with it for 2 months. I can tell you this, it def makes me miss the way my GC SRT responded.
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  6. #49
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by bill2019 View Post
    Cant tell if you are being a bit hostile with your comment... But even so, I have been deep into this issue and have been in contact with people within the industry and so far nothing has come through the pipeline with anything addressing the expected delay. When it does it will come with specific notes stating so.

    The TCM and GWM update that JAGAUR27 had installed seems like just a regular update addressing some issue his vehicle might have been out of date or by the DTC code might have been corrupt. Perhaps that update helped him in some way. My contacts stated that there has been new updates issued for several modules in the last 3 months but none specifically tagged with the delay.

    As I stated in the l405 thread the delay is related to the transmission programming and not to the Vehicle model or to the engine except for the diesel.
    There's no hostility toward you whatsoever, I'm just trying to get clarity. You are making assertions about this topic and saying it's universal across multiple models, model years, and engines of JLR vehicles, and I haven't seen any documentation beyond forum posts. In my experience, I've driven one 2019 L494 and two 2017 L405 vehicles, all with the SCV8 engine, and none exhibited this behavior while I drove them.

    I'm asking questions because you seem to be a bit evasive about who you're getting your information from. Who are "folks" or "contacts in the industry"? Are they JLR personnel? I don't know how you can assess Jaguar27's issue and resolution since he didn't respond to your post in the other thread. His resolution was updated ATCM (and GWM) software. I don't know how you can flatly state it doesn't solve the delay (when he says it did). I guess it's possible that resetting the ATCM by re-flashing it could cause the computer to "re-learn" and make it seem like the delay is gone, even if the update wasn't specifically for that issue, but I don't think you or I can make that assessment without first-hand knowledge.

    Again, I'm not criticizing you, but you are making blanket statements and assertions across more than one thread on this topic, without any back-up other than somewhat cryptic references to contacts you have, possibly inside JLR. It's just hard to know what to believe. Why isn't every owner screaming about this if it's a universal issue across models and engines?
    2019 RRS SCV8 ATB L494, Indus Silver
    2017 Range Rover SCV8 L405, Scotia Gray (wife's car)
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  7. #50
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by dwboston View Post
    There's no hostility toward you whatsoever, I'm just trying to get clarity. You are making assertions about this topic and saying it's universal across multiple models, model years, and engines of JLR vehicles, and I haven't seen any documentation beyond forum posts. In my experience, I've driven one 2019 L494 and two 2017 L405 vehicles, all with the SCV8 engine, and none exhibited this behavior while I drove them.

    I'm asking questions because you seem to be a bit evasive about who you're getting your information from. Who are "folks" or "contacts in the industry"? Are they JLR personnel? I don't know how you can assess Jaguar27's issue and resolution since he didn't respond to your post in the other thread. His resolution was updated ATCM (and GWM) software. I don't know how you can flatly state it doesn't solve the delay (when he says it did). I guess it's possible that resetting the ATCM by re-flashing it could cause the computer to "re-learn" and make it seem like the delay is gone, even if the update wasn't specifically for that issue, but I don't think you or I can make that assessment without first-hand knowledge.

    Again, I'm not criticizing you, but you are making blanket statements and assertions across more than one thread on this topic, without any back-up other than somewhat cryptic references to contacts you have, possibly inside JLR. It's just hard to know what to believe. Why isn't every owner screaming about this if it's a universal issue across models and engines?
    I am not just making blanket statements In fact I have spent a long time doing diagnostic testing and data logging to see if there was a defect and was not able to find any. I have delved into this issue a great deal I have posted any official updates that i could the last being the service slide of them acknowledging the issue and working on changing the calibrations for a target of April.

    I don't even know why you are commenting on this topic seeing that you do not have a vehicle with this issue so you cannot even know what it is that we are speaking of.

    All I ask is before you criticize my efforts or comments do some research of your own, more than reading forums. I am not on this forum just to rant I am here to help and be helped if I should need it, I never said I couldnt be wrong but I sure do try to get my info correct before stating anything.

    Also I think you should read the comments again regarding Jaguar27 I never said that he was wrong nor did i say it did not fix his problem I only said that if that update which I believe is not the official fix fixed his vehicle than perhaps just maybe the issue he had was not exactly the same as we have been talking about and I was also Happy that whatever it was FIXED his problem. Also I asked him if he was able to clarify a bit more on what the techs said that update was for.

    I would not expect anyone here to reveal there contacts info and I surely will not. If you choose not to believe what I say or trust my advice than don't I am not forcing you to do so If you dont need my help than I wont offer. but there are others that might like it. Anything that is read here or anywhere else should be verified by yourself just as I do advice is guidance not law and should always be double checked.

    Now with that out of the way I hope the update is here or will be shortly. If you had not seen the latest slide issued by JLR here is another link. Notice the status comments: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...57159-9999.pdf

    I see you have not taken delivery just yet and I hope when you get yours everything is fine I am sure you are excited to drive it.
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  8. #51
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by bill2019 View Post
    I am not just making blanket statements In fact I have spent a long time doing diagnostic testing and data logging to see if there was a defect and was not able to find any. I have delved into this issue a great deal I have posted any official updates that i could the last being the service slide of them acknowledging the issue and working on changing the calibrations for a target of April.

    I don't even know why you are commenting on this topic seeing that you do not have a vehicle with this issue so you cannot even know what it is that we are speaking of.

    All I ask is before you criticize my efforts or comments do some research of your own, more than reading forums. I am not on this forum just to rant I am here to help and be helped if I should need it, I never said I couldnt be wrong but I sure do try to get my info correct before stating anything.

    Also I think you should read the comments again regarding Jaguar27 I never said that he was wrong nor did i say it did not fix his problem I only said that if that update which I believe is not the official fix fixed his vehicle than perhaps just maybe the issue he had was not exactly the same as we have been talking about and I was also Happy that whatever it was FIXED his problem. Also I asked him if he was able to clarify a bit more on what the techs said that update was for.

    I would not expect anyone here to reveal there contacts info and I surely will not. If you choose not to believe what I say or trust my advice than don't I am not forcing you to do so If you dont need my help than I wont offer. but there are others that might like it. Anything that is read here or anywhere else should be verified by yourself just as I do advice is guidance not law and should always be double checked.

    Now with that out of the way I hope the update is here or will be shortly. If you had not seen the latest slide issued by JLR here is another link. Notice the status comments: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...57159-9999.pdf

    I see you have not taken delivery just yet and I hope when you get yours everything is fine I am sure you are excited to drive it.
    You've stated that every vehicle across models and engines is affected. I own one 2017 Range Rover and am taking delivery of a new RRS ATB in the next week. That's why I'm commenting.

    You are making blanket statements and being deliberately evasive about your sources. You could easily say where your sources are without revealing details or identities. Instead you choose to play games. Why would anyone at JLR outside a dealer talk to you about this issue? Without documentation, you're just someone on the internet making claims. That makes your information automatically suspect. And it does seem like you and others are here to rant, with multiple repeated posts regarding how dangerous these cars are with, as you admit, no diagnostic data to back it up.

    Best of luck with your continued investigation. I hope your secret sources come through for you.
    2019 RRS SCV8 ATB L494, Indus Silver
    2017 Range Rover SCV8 L405, Scotia Gray (wife's car)
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  9. #52
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    I've had 5 SCV8 405s and 2 SCV8 494s so far. Combined, I drove them literally hundreds of thousands of miles and I never really experienced anything like what's discussed in these threads. Just to add data points.
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  10. #53
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by bill2019 View Post
    If you choose not to believe what I say or trust my advice than don't I am not forcing you to do so If you dont need my help than I wont offer. but there are others that might like it.
    I like it. Thanks for your contributions thus far; keep 'em coming. Just hoping for a resolution soon.
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  11. #54
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    No official info yet but I had a little time to play some more because I just want to know.....

    I noticed something interesting.. I was puzzled as to why sometimes there was a longer delay than others so I focused on torque converter status and gear demand and actual gear status.

    What happens as expected at slowing speed the transmission is in 3rd and takes a fraction of time before changing from 3rd to 2nd after it is called to do so. The torque converter takes time to go from open to lock up this in my opinion is adding to the delay. If you notice on take off the vehicle takes a bit of time to really kick in it starts off slow and gradually speeds up before you can really take off, this is the torque convert gradually slipping before it locks up. This extended period before lock up is cause of a delay.

    Now here is where the longer delay comes in to play, If you are coming to a rapid stop from a speed that requires 5th gear the transmission will have to shift from 5th-4th than 4th-3rd and then determine if it needs to go from 3rd-2nd. It will not go into 1st unless you are at a complete stop for a full second or more. Taking off in 1st speeds up the clutch lock up taking off in 2nd delays it.

    I played with it for about an hour before I began to get nauseous but the delay times seem to vary accordingly with the current gear. It seems to me if the gears would downshift faster much of this would be avoided, Plus if they would speed up lock up that would help with the get up and go.

    These where my own observations and opinions I don't claim to know where the solution lies. I did this because I have a need to know how things work and what is going on always was that way and always will be. So it is killing me that we cannot get an answer.

    Side note while testing It happened again, came to a 4 way stop and other car waived me on, I waved back to says thanks, stepped on gas but by the time i got going they began to go thinking I wanted them to go and we both ended up in the intersection. Even though I was doing the testing instinctively I just went not thinking of the delay. i will never get used to this.
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  12. #55
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by bill2019 View Post
    Now here is where the longer delay comes in to play, If you are coming to a rapid stop from a speed that requires 5th gear the transmission will have to shift from 5th-4th than 4th-3rd and then determine if it needs to go from 3rd-2nd. It will not go into 1st unless you are at a complete stop for a full second or more. Taking off in 1st speeds up the clutch lock up taking off in 2nd delays it.
    The ZF 8HP can direct shift. This pattern is not needed and it shouldn't be doing it: from 5th -> 4th -> 3rd. Instead it should go 5th -> 3rd.

    What you said about making a decision to be in 3rd or 2nd (or 1 or 2nd, ect), is directly related to my comments about other vehicles having delays.

    How do you drive? Are you light on the gas, keeping RPMs low, basically trying to drive in a very fuel conservative manner? If so, try going 50 or 100 miles of a more sporty manner, faster acceleration, ect. After the 50 or 100 miles, see if that delay is now less.

    If your asking why, back to my old 2006 explorer reference; i drive conservatively most of the time, the car from the factory worked fine until about 50 miles or so of driving. Then it learned the way i drove and the throttle delay started occurring. Every time it took it in and among other things, they reset the TCU memory, the car worked fine until it "learned" my driving patterns and the problem comes back.
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  13. #56
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Remember that this is not on acceleration it is on deceleration transmission will respond differently depending on power demand. stepping on throttle hard while at speed will allow the transmission to downshift while skipping gears but slow down it will gradually change as speed decreases this is why the step down. plus you need to factor in while at speed like on highway the torque converter is locked so no delay with dealing with that.

    I am a pretty hard driver... The adaptions are always changing and have more to do with up and downshifting at varying speeds not really much to do at a stop first is called for there.
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  14. #57
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post

    If your asking why, back to my old 2006 explorer reference; i drive conservatively most of the time, the car from the factory worked fine until about 50 miles or so of driving. Then it learned the way i drove and the throttle delay started occurring. Every time it took it in and among other things, they reset the TCU memory, the car worked fine until it "learned" my driving patterns and the problem comes back.
    If that were the issue here, then wouldn't disconnecting the battery reset the TCU and eliminate the problem until the system 'relearns' your driving habits?

    It is a great thought, but I think this is something completely different.
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  15. #58
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    For those of you have been following this thread about the delay I just posted the official end result and fix info on the l405 thread

    Link https://www.rangerovers.net/forum/24...eration-6.html
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  16. #59
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    well after having the update installed i can confirm that it does eliminate the delay in fact it pretty much took away the slight throttle delay from a dead stop. I have yet to do a live data test to see if anything changed with shifting. But for now I am happy to be rid of that dangerous delay.
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  17. #60
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    Re: 2018 sport - throttle delay

    Would this apply to the V8's also - like a SVR?

    When asking for this update from the dealer, do we reference PCM Calibration Pathfinder Release 102? Sometimes dealers play dumb, so I think it's best to come armed with the specifics.
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