Charging system fault - Page 3
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Thread: Charging system fault

  1. #31
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Also, when I did replace the battery with a new one, it also measure around 12.2V

    Is it possible that my new battery is also bad, yet despite voltage readings, seems otherwise perfectly fine?


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  3. #32
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Wungun, Unless I am mistaken there is a black wire running to the right of the BMS off the diagram. Can you determine its destination? From the diagram, it appears to run directly off of the battery - to somewhere off the page. Is the diagram misleading? There must be a reason for the battery or charging fault indication on the dash. These systems use voltage drops for everything in troubleshooting. It is possible for the new battery to show a different current draw from the original, but that does not explain why your readings appear very similar. I have seen, for example, similar errors created by the alternator not properly seated in the mount, or defective connectors on the battery. These voltage readings, particularly on the battery with everything off concern me. I know that this is aggravating. One thing to consider here is that the alternator charging voltage is the regulated voltage with a fully charged battery. If the alternator is charging a partially discharged battery, much of the alternator's energy is in current, which WILL lower the voltage. That also concerns me. Suggestion: if you have a battery trickle charger, try charging the battery all night, then check your voltages again. Let's start with that. Ray

  4. #33
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Quote Originally Posted by RABarrett View Post
    Wungun, Unless I am mistaken there is a black wire running to the right of the BMS off the diagram. Can you determine its destination? From the diagram, it appears to run directly off of the battery - to somewhere off the page. Is the diagram misleading? There must be a reason for the battery or charging fault indication on the dash. These systems use voltage drops for everything in troubleshooting. It is possible for the new battery to show a different current draw from the original, but that does not explain why your readings appear very similar. I have seen, for example, similar errors created by the alternator not properly seated in the mount, or defective connectors on the battery. These voltage readings, particularly on the battery with everything off concern me. I know that this is aggravating. One thing to consider here is that the alternator charging voltage is the regulated voltage with a fully charged battery. If the alternator is charging a partially discharged battery, much of the alternator's energy is in current, which WILL lower the voltage. That also concerns me. Suggestion: if you have a battery trickle charger, try charging the battery all night, then check your voltages again. Let's start with that. Ray
    Sorry, it's a bad pic of the schematic...
    That black line leading off the page is going to chassis ground.

    Since it is a relatively new battery with a 5 year warranty, I'm going to inquire about having it replaced. I think it should show higher static charge.
    I don't believe the alternator is at fault as the dealer never pulled any codes concerning it.

    Trickle charging the battery over night is a good idea. Would be nice to know if it'll actually hold a higher level of charge.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
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  6. #34
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Something else to consider here is the temperature where you are. If the temperature there has dropped slightly, it may directly affect both the DMM and the battery. Can you check the voltage between the battery negative and several ground points, for example, engine ground, chassis ground, alternator case? It is possible that the only code set by the ECM might be when the charge rate drops lower than it presently appears. I know I appear to be harping on voltage drops to various grounding points, but I have repaired too many electrical and electronic problems with this procedure to count. I have seen silly stuff like this eat people's lunches and dinners. If you look at the published procedures on this posting, it also includes voltage drop testing at various points as well. I think we can solve this if we take it one step at a time, and don't overlook anything. Ray

  7. #35
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Quote Originally Posted by RABarrett View Post
    Something else to consider here is the temperature where you are. If the temperature there has dropped slightly, it may directly affect both the DMM and the battery. Can you check the voltage between the battery negative and several ground points, for example, engine ground, chassis ground, alternator case? It is possible that the only code set by the ECM might be when the charge rate drops lower than it presently appears. I know I appear to be harping on voltage drops to various grounding points, but I have repaired too many electrical and electronic problems with this procedure to count. I have seen silly stuff like this eat people's lunches and dinners. If you look at the published procedures on this posting, it also includes voltage drop testing at various points as well. I think we can solve this if we take it one step at a time, and don't overlook anything. Ray
    Took readings for what I could... Not altenator though as I couldn't access it...
    Check it out

    Engine off, all accessories on for 30 seconds, then off. What voltage ___12.17___
    2. Voltage across battery at idle (no electrical load) ____13.98________
    3. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (no electrical load) _____13.98___
    4. Voltage across battery at 2000rpm (everything electrical switched on) _____13.94____
    5. Voltage at ALTERNATOR at 2000rpm (everything switched on)___________________
    6. Voltage drop between alternator body and battery negative (YES negative). Measure at max electrical load and 2000rpm ______________ (millivolts please)
    7. Voltage drop between alternator positive and battery positive. 2000rpm, max electrical load _____________
    8. Check Voltage drop from Battery Negative terminal to 1st groundpoint on vehicle_________0. 00V_____
    9. Check voltage drop from 1st ground point to block_____0.03V_____
    10. Check voltage drop from Alternator Housing to block__________

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  8. #36
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    Re: Charging system fault

    At the shop now...
    They tested the battery. They say it's testing strong but maybe not taking a full charge...?
    They are gonna warranty it and drop in a brand new one...

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  9. #37
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Using my Bluetooth OBDII dongle, I'm monitoring the voltage (Or at least what the car thinks is the voltage) while I drive. Will compare it with my multimedia this week.
    So on my way home, just showing 13.7 to 13.8V.
    Discouraging, considering I've seen it as high as 14.3V previously.

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  10. #38
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    Re: Charging system fault

    wungun, sorry this diid not fix this issue. Is the battery light still on on the dash? On perusing the image you sent of the BMS, you have basically two places to locate a voltage drop. One is between the battery negative and the post of the BMS. The other is on the cable side of the BMS, between the cable side of the BMS and its post. You might first try checking between the battery negative terminal and the cable coming off of the BMS. If this drop is less than .5 volts, with the engine running, you can eliminate this as a possibility. Locating a voltage drop can be tedious, but I still think it is your source of the problem. Can you reach the alternator terminals? If so, we can do some quick and dirty check to either locate or eliminate some possibilities. Ray

  11. #39
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Quote Originally Posted by RABarrett View Post
    wungun, sorry this diid not fix this issue. Is the battery light still on on the dash? On perusing the image you sent of the BMS, you have basically two places to locate a voltage drop. One is between the battery negative and the post of the BMS. The other is on the cable side of the BMS, between the cable side of the BMS and its post. You might first try checking between the battery negative terminal and the cable coming off of the BMS. If this drop is less than .5 volts, with the engine running, you can eliminate this as a possibility. Locating a voltage drop can be tedious, but I still think it is your source of the problem. Can you reach the alternator terminals? If so, we can do some quick and dirty check to either locate or eliminate some possibilities. Ray
    Battery light still on, yes...

    Can't get to alternator terminals... Would be the next logical place to check.
    I think you need to get to them from underneath??
    I'm beginning to suspect a bad + cable of the alternator or a bad ground somewhere. That, or my alternator is dying slowly. That kinda makes sense as the new battery is barely making it past 12.2V charge level, same as the original battery, which triggered the charging fault.

    The chassis ground point that's connected directly to the BMS/negative terminal post has 0V drop.... It's a clean connection.

    Not sure if you still understand what I'm saying about the BMS negative.... It's totally integrated into the post clamp. The only two conductors that are accessible are the + feed and the LIN wire to the back of the fuse block/body control module.
    See image...
    Black arrow is where chassis ground attaches, red is + in, and blue is LIN.

    I appreciate you helping me figure this out... It's very frustrating, especially in the dead of winter and working on the car myself is next to impossible.

    Seeing as the ECU is "reading" just 13.7V with the motor on concerns me now.
    I still need to verify this with a MM.
    Initially, I was seeing 14+ volts (but STILL had charging system fault)

    Also, see pic of what the dealer did...
    Notice just the one OBD code... Nothing mentioning any alternator voltage or charging errors... (Also this is with new battery)



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  12. #40
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    Re: Charging system fault

    wungun, I do understand what you are saying Re: BMS. Just for grins, I would like to check for voltage drops at these terminals on the BMS. Let's just check the voltage drop between the battery - terminal to the output cable to chassis ground. I know this sounds fruitless, but I have seen stranger things in my 45+ years in vehicle electronics. Should see <.5 volts. I would like to check the engine ground to battery - as well. Both of these checks should be made while the engine is running. Let's start with that. While we are running these checks, let's keep the battery charged with a trickle charger. Please keep me advised as I am convinced we can find the problem. From what I recall from your initial posts, it appears as if there are issues on the ground side of things. It is easy to overlook these things. We won't miss a trick if we stay focused. Ray

  13. #41
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Also, can someone either provide a wiring diagram for this BMS, including where the LIN line terminates? wungun, I'd also like you to check the voltage between the purple wire on the BMS to battery +. That would be at the BMS monitor wire to bat +. Thanks Ray

  14. #42
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    Re: Charging system fault

    Quote Originally Posted by RABarrett View Post
    Also, can someone either provide a wiring diagram for this BMS, including where the LIN line terminates? wungun, I'd also like you to check the voltage between the purple wire on the BMS to battery +. That would be at the BMS monitor wire to bat +. Thanks Ray
    Ray, I've made all these measures already...
    It's posted in this thread...

    Battery - to chassis ground, 0V
    Battery - to engine ground, 0.03V
    Purple wire from Battery + shows full battery voltage
    Purple wire FROM BMS metered with battery + shows 11.5V
    Green wire to battery + shows 9V

    What I need is someone to take these BMS measurements on their Rover. I doubt it matters which model car.

    Please find attached BMS wiring diagrambatt1.pdf

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  15. #43
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    Re: Charging system fault

    It appears to me as if the purple wire is the cause of the voltage drop. From battery, 12.2or 3 to BMS connection is 11.5. Thats almost a 1 volt drop, through a wire with a fusible link. That sounds fishy to me. Ray

  16. #44
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    Re: Charging system fault

    wungun, Just so you know, I wondered whether the readings had changed with the new battery. Ray

  17. #45
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    Re: Charging system fault

    wungun, Suggestion: can you check any and all of the wiring going to the + side of the battery, especially those on the BMS. My suspicion here is an issue relating to the wiring to the +side of the battery, based on your testing. Pls take the time to untape, or otherwise expose the connectors, and their related wiring. Anything wrong here may lead to a voltage drop. I don't know how many wires/ connectors are there, but I suspect something wrong here. Taking the necessary time here may expose an issue, or remove it from suspicion. These computers, whether you swear by them or swear at them, their troubleshooting depends on voltage drops. Troubleshoot issues as they do will reveal the problem. Ray

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