Serpentine Belt Replacement question
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Thread: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Serpentine Belt Replacement question-pully-diagram.jpg

    I need to replace the serpentine belt on my '01 RR and I found this diagram online. The old belt is off...as it broke off on the way home (just spent about an hour unraveling the broken pieces from around the fan). A few questions:

    1. Now that the old belt is off, do I need to worry about the "tensioner?" If so, according to the diagram above and what I see in my car, is that the far left most pulley (when standing in front of the car) that is attached to the engine by a bolt, that is bit to the right of the pulley....do I have to loosen that bolt? Or how does the tensioner otherwise loosen?

    2. According to the diagram above, #5 is what's called the "idler pulley" and is in V8s only...I have a V8 (4.6 HSE), but it seems I don't have an "idler pulley" in that location (I do have one on the left by the tensioner pulley, #9 in the diagram) Look at the photo and where I am pointing (the pulley on the left side is the A/C Compressor pulley and on the right is the ACE pump. According to the diagram there should be a pulley below there). There seems to be a threaded hole there, but clearly no pulley. Am I supposed to have one there? Obviously the car ran without it. But I am concerned that when I get the proper serpentine belt for my '01 4.6 HSE it may be too long, as I may be missing a pulley? Maybe I myself am totally missing something here...maybe this is a dumb question....but that's why I am asking here. I seem to be one pulley short of this diagram...which is supposed to be a diagram for an '01 RR.

    Serpentine Belt Replacement question-photo.jpg

    3. I am assuming I would start the install of the belt at the bottom with the crankshaft pulley, then slip the belt under the fan pulley, then work the belt around the pulleys on either sides ending with the highest pulley, the A/C compressor. This is what seems to make sense to me as I look at the diagram and at the pulleys in the engine. Or any other better way of attacking this?

    4. Lastly, are there any other belts in this vicinity? I seem to recall another belt around there, and I don't see any other belts. Just wondering if when the serpentine belt broke perhaps the other(s) did too? I was unraveling a lot of belt scraps...so I am not sure. Looks like there aren't any other belts....but just wanted to ask to make sure.

    If I had the new belt as I write this, I would just try it out. But I have to either order a belt or find it locally tomorrow (It's Sunday night as I write this, and wanted to get some answers before tomorrow).

    Thanks guys!

    Chris

    P.S. I would reference RAVE, but I don't have it.

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  3. #2
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Also, as I mentioned the serpentine belt broke as I was driving home. I was less than a mile a way and just risked it to get it into my garage. It was overheating and when I inspected the engine obviously the belt was in pieces, mostly wrapped around the fan.

    Just wondering, besides replacing the serpentine belt...anything else I should be aware of/inspect/replace?

    Thanks

  4. #3
    JUNIOR ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Hi,
    just changed my serpentine belt on Saturday during a service. Your diagram seems to have too many pulleys compared to a UK spec V8. Not sure what an ACE pump is but I don't think we have one fitted to UK market vehicles.
    Have a look at the bits of old belt or a number that looks something like TPK-2120 where the figures are the belt length in millimeteres. This is a good check that you get the right replacement if you don't know the part number for your particular vehicle.

    Refitting is fairly straight forward, although I did get it wrong at the first attempt but its obvious when your look at it - each pulley needs to be in contact with the belt. Going underneath the car may help pulling the belt through and locating it on the lower pulleys.To put the final part of the belt on you put a spanner (wrench) on the bolt at the end of the tensioner and turning (hard!) about 45-60 degrees to the right. Use a longish and comfortable spanner otherwise your hand will know about it. This creates a enough slack to get the belt on the final pulley. I found it easiest slipping the belt over the alternator rather than the tensioner (as its a smaller diameter) as the last step.

    Then check every pulley has the belt on properly, multi grooved belt in contact with grooved pulleys, or the back of the belt is in contact with smooth pulleys and centrally located. Then stand back, switch on and test.

    250 mile road test to a snowy Germany yesterday was the road test. All is OK.
    Good luck.

    May I suggest that you purchase two belts and keep one as a spare with the spare wheel. This belt you can change by the side of the road unlike my SAAB 9000 where you have to remove a front wheel, wing liner etc to thread the belt back on.

    Rave is quite is easy to download from this site although there isn't a good diagram of threading the belt, at least in the electrical section (no.86).
    Last edited by Gavin Short; December 2nd, 2012 at 11:19 PM. Reason: supplementary comment
    Gavin
    1998 RR 4.6 HSE lpg
    Rovacomlite (all modules for a '98 GEMS P38, except Cruise Control)
    EAS Kicker (P38 & RRC)

  5. #4
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Thank you Gavin! However, the old belt was shredded to about the thickness of spaghetti. Plus to get it unraveled from the fan pulley I used wire cutters and slowly cut pieces of it away until it was gone.

    I can't remember what site now I found this diagram...have to go back and make sure it was a US model (for me). Aside from that I am a bit confused still about the tensioner and how to loosen that. Is it the bolt just slightly to the right of the farthest left pulley (the tensioner pulley in the diagram)? That is the only bolt I see around that pulley. I guess I also (as I sit here at my computer and not in front of the engine) can't see how loosening that bolt affects the pulley. I am assuming it tilts it closer to the middle of the engine so there is less tension on it and easier to place the belt on...then the reverse when it's tightened?

    I think I need to just get the belt, try it, then start asking questions if I have issues.

    Thanks again Gavin...appreciate it!

  6. #5
    JUNIOR ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Wow, you are up late. I didn't expect a reply so quickly!
    Put the spanner on the nut that is in the centre of the tensioner and then turn it to the right 45-60 degrees. it movers the whole tensioner to the right which gives you the extra slack you need. Try it before you even get your new belt.

    also I added a supplementary to my original post:

    May I suggest that you purchase two belts and keep one as a spare with the spare wheel. This belt you can change by the side of the road unlike my SAAB 9000 where you have to remove a front wheel, wing liner etc to thread the belt back on.


    got to dash - off to work and it snowing.
    Gavin
    1998 RR 4.6 HSE lpg
    Rovacomlite (all modules for a '98 GEMS P38, except Cruise Control)
    EAS Kicker (P38 & RRC)

  7. #6
    JUNIOR ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    That pic is from a Discovery not p38. Belt runs much the same way though. Mine came off because the crank pulley came loose!
    2001 P38 Vogue

  8. #7
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    The ACE (hydraulic roll bar) pump is the Discovery give away. Hope it turns out ok but in these failures the lack of the fan is next to nothing against the coolant pump stopping.

    The routing is fairly easy, I start by taking the entire belt under the fan and then draw it up both sides so it forms a doubled up U shape. The hard bit (read: potentially time consuming) is getting the portion of belt in between the crank and the fan pulley, once that's located try and keep the tension on so it doesn't slip out again as you route round the rest of the pulleys, leaving the alternator till last. Once your almost there get the 15mm spanner on the tensioner, take up the tension and slip the last portion of the belt over the alternator pulley. Many ways to skin a cat but that was just mine.
    Larry S
    1995 4.6 HSE

  9. #8
    JPT
    JPT is offline
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Just replaced my serpentine belt for the first time ( for me), just followed all the leads on this site, made a drawing etc, the tensioner was quite firm but does move and I started from the bottom and worked upwards. the one thing I found was at the final part of fitting at the top I did not leave the tensioner to last I put the final loop on the AC pump after the tensioner, it was easier ( for me anyway). 400 miles everything is fine.

  10. #9
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    All great responses...thank you everyone! Going to get the belt now at the local parts store (I would get 2 but they only have one in stock for now). May perhaps be back once I have the belt in hand and in the midst of the install...but all this help so much!

    OK...really dumb question, and again not looking at my engine right now, but a 15mm "spanner"...is that a socket wrench (in the US)? I noticed all those calling it a spanner are in the UK (or Belgium). I mean I can look at the pulley and see for myself....but just more curious now...when you guys call it a spanner is that some specialty tool...or simply a socket wrench to us in the US? Again, excuse the dumb question

  11. #10
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Also, if this diagram is wrong (not for a p38 then do the ACE pump and the PAS pump pulleys just connect on the right sides of each pulley...i.e. if I were to follow the above diagram I would just disregard #5, follow it as if it weren't there?

    I'll try and find a proper diagram for the p38, but simply following the rule that with the belt grooves meet grooves and smooth meet smooth should probably be enough.

  12. #11
    JUNIOR ROVER
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    Post Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Thesloan,

    spanner = wrench

    I would have preferred to have used my socket set as the ratchet handle is much more comfortable on the palm of one's hand than a spanner.

    If you are stuck with Brit Speak (I am Brit working and living in Belgium) there are several terminology guides on the internet. Here is one.

    British <=> American Automotive Translations


    British term American term
    ----------------- -------------
    accumulator battery
    actuator switch or servo
    Artic articulated lorry = "tractor-trailer"
    baulk ring synchro ring
    bonnet hood
    boot trunk
    bulkhead firewall
    choke tube venturi
    core plug freeze plug
    crocodile clip alligator clip
    crosshead Phillips
    crown wheel ring gear
    cubby box glove box or glove compartment
    damper shock absorber
    drive shaft half shaft or axle shaft
    drop-head coupe convertible version of 2 door coupe
    dumpy screwdriver short screwdriver
    dynamo generator
    earth ground
    estate station wagon
    fascia dashboard
    fixed-head coupe 2 door coupe
    frogeye bugeye
    Gallon (Imperial) 5 US Quarts
    gearbox transmission
    gudgeon pin wrist pin
    hood convertible top
    jointing compound gasket sealant
    lorry truck
    mole wrench Vice grips
    monocoque unibody

    etc etc


    However there are several British terms where I would probably use the American term.

    All quite simple compared to Flemish (Dutch) or French terms.
    I remember the challenge of explaining to a Turkish P38 owner in (French - the language we had in common)
    that the headlamp wipers would only work every second time the main screen washers were used - that
    taxed my vocabulary!
    Gavin
    1998 RR 4.6 HSE lpg
    Rovacomlite (all modules for a '98 GEMS P38, except Cruise Control)
    EAS Kicker (P38 & RRC)

  13. #12
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Perfect! Thanks Gavin! I pretty much assumed spanner meant wrench...esp when I think it was you would said "spanner (wrench)"....I just wasn't sure if maybe it was some specialty wrench I had never heard of...haha. Couldn't hurt to ask....learn something new everyday...

    OK...got the belt...got a 15mm spanner....printing out this thread for reference.....I may be back......

  14. #13
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    OK...well I figured out the tensioner...pretty simple...I get it. Put a 15mm wrench on it and using a pipe for leverage to rock it upwards as far as it will go. However, I have tried a few different pulleys to end with, mainly the AC and the tensioner itself....but can't seem to get it to go over. Even with the tensioner fully rocked upwards, I can't seem to get enough slack to get it over whatever pulley I am ending with. Seems I am about 1/4" at the most short. I did check the mm length of the belt I got against what the dealer provides (OEM) and they are the same. In fact the one I got is even just slightly longer according to the specs vs what the parts dept at the dealer told me.

    Is the belt supposed to slip on pretty easily when the tensioner is fully rocked upwards?

    So not sure how to get it onto the last pulley....going to keep trying.....

  15. #14
    Premium Member
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Really you want to choose the smallest pulley as the last one, so the AC is not the best to choose. Route everything until only the tensioner remains and try just with that, I'm pretty sure this is actually how i did it, can't quite remember. The belt initially gets in the way but you can turn the belt vertically, at least then your able to push against the tensioner whilst pulling on the belt, sort of the action of pulling a longbow.
    Larry S
    1995 4.6 HSE

  16. #15
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Serpentine Belt Replacement question

    Got it! But was using the arm of a floor jack as the pipe for leverage and as I was pulling it down it was getting stuck at the fan blade and radiator hose (pipe was too fat)....so I pushed harder this time and the tensioner did raise up more and gave me enough slack to get the belt on. However when I did that, it snapped a large piece of one of the fan blades off. Hopefully that won't cause an issue with the efficiency of the cooling. I thought that I had the tensioner up as high as it would go anyway...but guess I didn't and that ended up being the problem. So if I had used a more narrow pipe or arm to use as leverage on the tensioner, this would have been really easy.

    Also, just a tip to those of you reading this and going to do this project on your own....when you take the fan blade cover off, cover that gap with some tape. I dropped my small flashlight in that gap and had to get under the car to pry away the fan cover from underneath to get at the flashlight.

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