This will all make you laugh...spectacular electrical brainstorm. I need advice!

[Lockie115]

I am a newbie, and am not a skilled mechanic..or even a mechanic.

Bought my p38 from a reputable small specialist in the UK, with an immaculate service history. Brought it to Crete, so that I could use it while I am overseas and living up a mountain for a year.

A while ago, small faults started to appear. Persistent 'Low Key Battery' fault, and the 'Open Book' sign on the HEVAC display.

2 weeks ago, while up in the White Mountains, I opened the sunroof. On going to shut it, the car suffered an electrical brainstorm. Windscreen wipers operated, windscreen washer emptied itself, RH rear window descended to fully open, horn and alarm went continuously, main instruments went erratic and then dead, and then came back. Car kept running, and since this is wild country, I drove it back - I knew if I turned the engine off, it might never restart. When I got back, and switched off, engine dead.

Once back, I have done some work. I am 4 hours from the only Land rover dealership on the island, and they do not speak English, it would seem.

I have replaced the engine compartment fusebox - it had the seemingly standard Relay 7 burnout problem -The 30amp maxifuse had also burnt out. I have checked the battery, refilled the water, charged it etc. I also cleaned the ground point for the negative lead. How did I get a new fusebox? Was going back to the UK in any event - from now on, it is all via courier, so cripplingly expensive.

Before the fusebox was changed AND now, when the battery is connected, the alarm and horn go off. There is power to the dashboard generally, and a variety of faults are reported. Some are accurate - R Rear Window open [As it has been since the brainstorm], and some are false - fuse 20 blown, low windscreen wash. There is no response from the engine when the ignition is turned.

To get the vehicle to the dealer, if he is still in business, will be a huge job - we are 400m up a mountain side, and there is no simple way of getting a tow truck/flatbed in.

I will plug on through the various suggested checks for the grounding points, when I can find them - remember, I am an idiot as far as mechanics are concerned. What I have read so far leads me to believe that this might be a genuine BeCM problem - I really hope not, by the way.

So, all you happy and deeply experienced p38 owners, can you give me some ideas about what happened, what I might do, and what I can tell the garage in Heraklion if I can ever get in contact with them.

2 points to finish..I have most basic tools with me, and an ammeter which I am rapidly learning how to use - and the 4 x 4 specialist who sold me the p38 wont help - too long since I bought it.

[CanuckHSE]

Sorry to hear you're having so many problems. As a newb myself I unfortunately can't offer any advice other than moral support.

I hate to hear about seemingly reputable dealers selling lemons... how long ago did you purchase your Rover?

[marty_nz]

Howdy,

I'm sorry to hear about your issues.. definitely sounds BECM related. I had troubles like this on my first 1995 HSE... I eventually found that one of the power cables from the fuse box, back to the BECM had been wedged inbetween the fuse box and the chassis when a previous owner had changed it... and eventually it started shorting out against the chassis, causing all manner of problems - including gearbox faults, loss of instruments whilst driving etc.

My first thing would be to check power cables to make sure they are not damaged/shorting against the chassis etc.
Check all the earthing points under the bonnet, and around the BECM (it's main one is right behind it under the carpet IIRC
Also look under the kick panel on drivers side (assuming RHD) as there's an earthing point there, and a connector that can get pretty corroded and grimey!
Next step would also to be to take the BECM out, and open it up to see if there is any visible sign of damage from water, or stuff shorting out. (It's not that difficult, or scary as some would make out - I pulled mine apart and cleaned up some corrosion to fix a window relay problem, and I'm not the most technically or mechanically minded person in the world!

If you're going to get the BECM out, or check the earth behind it, then removing the drivers seat (once again, assuming RHD) is a LOT quicker and easier with the investment of a Torx T50 bit... you can use an allen key to bodge it, but being able to connect it to a socket is a lot quicker, and there's less swearing involved (in my experiences anyway!) The BECM lid itself has 2 types of Torx heads - a T10 and T15, if I remember rightly!

I'm sure others will chip in some knowledge on the electrical side of things and if it is a BECM problem, there are plenty of people out there these days who repair them, and there's also plenty of 2nd hand ones going on Ebay and the likes, usually with the keys and everything you need to make it work!

I hope this helps, and good luck with getting her back on the road!

Martin

[Lockie115]

Good support already - many thanks, but please keep the ideas coming. The real problem is getting her started - if I could at least get her under some cover, or to where she could be towed from!

One thought - given the problem started when I moved the sunroof, would anyone associate the resulting 'everything electrical goes at once' problem with that, ie anti-trap device?

By the way, no blame on the UK garage who sold me the Rangie. It was more that 6 months ago, and I am 2800 miles from them.

Feeling a bit more cheerful now that I have some good folk giving good advice. My Greek neighbour has offered to use the car as a goat shed........

[marty_nz]

Possibly. I don't think they have an actual device that detects a trap, I think it's more a case of if the motor stalls (because of someone's hand etc) then it takes that as there's something stuck, and so it backs off. The only way I can see that affecting everything else is that if the motor for the sunroof has stalled, drawn too much current and made something go pop. Or it might have shorted something out.

Do you have the sunroof closed again at the moment? If you pull down the interior light, you can use the manual key (or as in my case where the key is missing a biggish flat bladed screwdriver) to manually close the sunroof. Also, you can access the multiplug for the sunroof motor from there. Might be an idea (if you haven't already) to unplug it... in case that was the cause of the initial problem. If it turns out to have nothing to do with it, then you can simply plug it back in - but also means that you can't bump it open etc again from the switch, while you're troubleshooting other things.

Open book on the HEVAC could be numerous things - once again, if RL7 was cooked in the fusebox, then that's the left hand blower motor... maybe remove the trim underneath the glovebox, and unplug the blower motor (you could possibly do the right one aswell from under the steering column... RAVE will help with diagrams and steps to take)... once again, it might not be the cause of the problem, but it at least eliminates things.. I'm just thinking along the lines of the "less you have connected, the less there is to go wrong!" especially as at this stage it's more a case of just getting it running, than a full diagnosis

Out of interest too.... Did you say that the Maxi-Fuse that blew was 30A? because the owner manual only shows 40A, 50A, and 60A Maxi Fuses... Maxi Fuse 1, 4, and 5 are all BECM main power lines (All supposed to be 60A fuses), and the note in the owners manual: "*Failure of one of these fuses will result in the message centre displaying various messages simultaneously. Do not attempt to replace the fuse, contact the main dealer"

Now, if we ignore the last bit... of contacting the dealer, since you're not likely to get a decent english answer out of them, then can you let us know which Maxi Fuse blew? and also if any other fuses in that fuse box have blown? If you can post this, then I'll have a scout in the ETM for you and trace what they actually power, and we might be able to figure out from that whether the sunroof is the only culprit

Hope this helps you a bit more,

Martin

[ytt105]

You need a new battery!!!
When the battery is suss all manner of things go funny, and just because the battery can turn the engine over does NOT mean it is healthy.

Do the electrical sticky above.

[Lockie115]

Thanks guys. I agree I probably do need a new battery, but since the car is dead....I have a strong reading on the battery, but turning the ignition produces nothing - I cant do the Sticky tests. I'll go back and read it again, but I seem to need an operating engine!

I'll get on with what I can, and report back. When it stops raining......

[benji]

MF2 is 30 amp. EAS and 'SM' - what ever that is.

Is it possible you have the wrong fuse box installed, as there around 6 different types? The part number should be on a white sticker on the front of the box. Also, was the box new or second hand?

Also, what year is the car? Is it petrol?

As fuse 20 is in the BECM, it's fed from the fuse box. ie, if there's no power for this fuse coming out the bottom of the fuse box obviously there's part of the problem. If there's power going into the BECM for fuse 20 to run off....(i'll look it up when I get home).

Have you got RAVE? and can you get hold of a multimeter... it makes things so much easier.

When I got my 96 it had a low battery, a blown maxi fuse, and a burnt out fuse box, and as you've seen; all hell breaks loose! Replaced these things and it's fine.

Ditto for the battery; if you don't feed them enough juice through their food tube they get really cranky!

[Lockie115]

OK - The 30amp fuse is correct - the fusebox is correct and new. The various fuseboxes are related to VIN numbers, and I have the right one. The Rangie is a petrol model.

I'm trying to download RAVE, but am battling the Greek phone system.

I will get a new battery, and work through all of the above.

Will keep you posted. You are all stars!

[ghind]

STart with the elEctrical sticky!!!!!!! Skip all this other stuff until you've done the basics. Sticky!!!!

[marty_nz]

I agree to do the Electrical Sticky - but once you've looked at the fuses and the likes... there's not a lot of point doing the sticky if (as in first post) you can' start the engine... most of the sticky is done with the engine running, so if you can't start it, then there's not a lot of point IMHO. I would also (personally, if it was my RR) prefer to spend a bit of time and look over things to make sure fuses, wiring etc looked ok, before trying to run as many accessories and draw as much current as possible to test the battery. If there is an electrical wiring issue, then to me, trying to run everything at full blast is just asking for more trouble...

So, yes - do the sticky ONCE you have the RR running again, and then you can double check battery, alternator, earth leads etc, as there may be something there. But the inital symptoms were an open book on HEVAC, and Low Key Battery, that doesn't sound immediately like battery/alternator... if it had been throwing up random gearbox faults, or things like that, then yes, I would have said do the sticky and see what results are.

Next: what year P38 do you have? your sig says 4.6 HSE... but in RAVE there are 4 different versions of the ETM, and 3 different versions of the owners manual for different variations in MY... if you can give us your model year, it will help with looking things up!

RAVE ETM shows that Fuse 20 under the seat, should be 30A and go to the left seat. AFAIK all the main power for the BECM is fused in the engine fuse box. There are 5x Maxi Fuses, and then other normal fuses, starting at F23.

Apologies on the MF2 part - I've just looked through the owners manuals, and found I don't have the 1st revision one as part of my RAVE, however in the ETM, from 1995 - 1999MY MF2 IS 30A, and supplies power to the starter solenoid (Via RL16) and the EAS compressor relay (via RL20). Post 1999 MF2 is 50A and powers a secondary air injection system. Once again, apologies on the confusion.

Martin

[Lockie115]

Hi guys...I am listening/looking and replying, but it seems that I am not getting through the queue for the moderator.....

Martin, I am following many of your suggestions. Have just discovered that the area of the BECM is sopping wet, and will try and track down the source before I get any further. This is a new 'surprise'.

My Rangie was registered in Jan 1997 - Vin is VA359xxx.

[Scotty]

If the BECM is wet you have found source of your issues. Check the heater core which is located under the dash and kind of behind the glove box. The pipes which go into heater core are sealed with a couple of orings, which have a habit of failing at the most in opportune time. When they fail your water will empty on to the floor on the passenger side.
you need to really get the BECM dried out then follow the sticky above and see what damage has resulted..

[RRToadHall]

Hi guys...I am listening/looking and replying, but it seems that I am not getting through the queue for the moderator.....

Martin, I am following many of your suggestions. Have just discovered that the area of the BECM is sopping wet, and will try and track down the source before I get any further. This is a new 'surprise'.

My Rangie was registered in Jan 1997 - Vin is VA359xxx.

The wet BeCM ceratinly explains all of your issues. It is very simple to remove, clean and dry. When mine got soaked I lucked out and made it through without any issues. I imply looked at it as a great chance to clean my carpets and detail under my seats and cubby. Usually the worst issue is a corroded or fried relay on the power board inside the BeCM. Those are easily replaced with no need to ship your BeCM off to a specialist.

Apologies for the 6 hour wait on your posts. Sadly we've had some really lazy moderators that simply disappear for weeks and months at a time so new folks have to wait while we lazy Americans sleep in. At this time we only have mod members here in North America so it leaves a bit of a time lag while you folks are up and about during your daytime.

[Lockie115]

And no disrespect to the Moderators!

You have no idea how much better I feel having found this forum..and you can quote me....At one point, I was wondering why anyone would ever own a Rangie and take it anywhere more than 50 feet from a fully equipped and staffed workshop.

I'll keep you posted on events.....