Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...
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Thread: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Hello all,
    I have been searching for an alternative fuel for my 1997 4.6 HSE for the last two years. Now I think we may have turned a corner! We may find new Alternative Fuel kits coming to market built here in the USA on the horizon. I also know many other Range Rover owners are looking for cheaper alternative to kits found abroad.

    I have run across a group that is seemingly searching for a target group of vehicles to build kits for here in the USA. If we can show significant interest they may consider putting in the efforts to design, build, and from what I can tell, get U.S. EPA Certification for said kits. Below I posted text from their site and a link to the page to indicate WE would like to see a kit DEVELOPED for our ROVERS. No endorsement from me here; Im just hoping to share the info and possibly show enough interest to get some in the industry to start building a few Alternative Fuel Kits here in the USA. From what I CAN SEE, WE HAVE ONLY ONE LONE DISCOVERY OWNER IS ON THIS LIST!!! Please get involved and help this become a reality!

    CLICK on the "Vehicle Request List" once on the page to see how we are doing! Good luck to us all and thanks for your help and for reading this.
    Seth


    From the following companies website:
    TransEco Energy Corporation 828-210-8146
    2006 TEC - TransEco Energy Corporation
    Sign up form for vehicles to run on cng, lng or lpg
    If you are interested in converting your vehicle(s) to operate on natural gas or propane at an affordable cost, please fill out form below and submit, by filling out form you are not obligated to purchase anything.
    Here is what's going on! We have conversion kits for every vehicle on the road but are not allowed to install without EPA certification, this certification process requires a lot of testing and is very expensive. Now you know why we do not have EPA kits certified for every vehicle, but we will if there is enough interest. We need around 20-40 of the same vehicle engine platform and we will get conversion kit certified for that vehicle. Keep in mind that the more vehicles interested, the cheaper the cost will be. On Vehicle Request List page we are storing a data base of interested vehicles, if you fill out form and submit you will see your vehicle appear on list within a day or so, and you can monitor list to see how many vehicles are interested that have same vehicle, under quantity column. When we reach quantity needed we will contact you and confirm that you are still interested and discuss price. This form is for commercial or residential use.

    If you are interested check out the following link to the page I found:
    http://www.transecoenergy.com/pages/Sign_Up.htm

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  3. #2
    LIFETIME CONTRIBUTOR
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    One of the bigger manufacturers of LPG equipment for cars is US-based - IMPCO. http://www.impco.ws/

    The system in my Range Rover is an off the shelf non-brand specific KME system. See http://www.kme.com.pl/diego/EN_index.html

    Is EPA certification a problem if you do you own?
    Ron Beckett
    1995 Range Rover HSE 4.6 V8 auto
    2007 Yamaha XJR1300
    2006 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom

    RIP Bucko (1979-2008 - Riding on forever)
    http://p38arover.com/lee_pix/bike_caricature-avatar.jpg

  4. #3
    FOUNDING MEMBER
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    I'm talking with Technocarb right now about importing their ESIP kits from Canada, all in the box ready to go, minus tank.

    I've also spoken with several local LPG retailers and the basic consensus is the EPA is too busy cleaning oil off of ducks to worry about going after someone who is improving thier emissions. (outside of california atleast..)

    If I understand it correctly, the EPA certs cost about $150,000 for one model year, and are only good for one year (ie, to renew the cert to continue selling next year is ANOTHER full $150,000) One cert is good for one model year, so the 8 years of p38 would run over a million, to sell kits for one year. The US p38 fleet would not be financially viable to get a cert for a dedicated kit.

    The EPA law basically says that ANY tampering is illegal, which would include anything not recommended by the OEM that affects emissions. K&N filters, spark plugs, oils, exhaust mods, even larger tires.

    there are many law-firms that want to go after the regulation, but since noone has been prosecuted under it, they have no good basis for a case.

  5. #4
    Premium Member
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Quote Originally Posted by shupack
    there are many law-firms that want to go after the regulation, but since noone has been prosecuted under it, they have no good basis for a case.
    So let me get this right - You guys being held back due to draconian bureaucracy and forced to pay hundreds of thousands to license use for particluar applications relevant only for that year.

    Yet if you ignore all of that and just fit it, you will get away and if you don't hoardes of lawyers will happily jump on the bandwagon for a piece of class action...

    Does that not make it a nobrainer?
    Kamran
    1998 - 4.0 - Ex Police 'Special Vehicle' - Single Point LPG
    http://www.clicksmilies.com/usersmil...e_steering.gif

  6. #5
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ka177ran
    Quote Originally Posted by shupack
    there are many law-firms that want to go after the regulation, but since noone has been prosecuted under it, they have no good basis for a case.
    So let me get this right - You guys being held back due to draconian bureaucracy and forced to pay hundreds of thousands to license use for particluar applications relevant only for that year.

    Yet if you ignore all of that and just fit it, you will get away and if you don't hoardes of lawyers will happily jump on the bandwagon for a piece of class action...

    Does that not make it a nobrainer?
    that's the way I understand it

  7. #6
    BPR
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    I have been looking for a CNG kit for a while as I can both fill (phill) from home and the corner station has 3000 & 3600 psi CNG. I need to accelerate my schedule as starting at the end of this month I will be driving 100 miles a day vs. my usual 10 so ROI will come on much more quickly than before.

    Count me in on a CNG kit (or even an LPG) for my '96 4.0

    Dennis - anything I can do to help, please let me know

    BPR
    1996 Range Rover 4.0 SE (gone) * looking for another project
    2006 Land Rover LR3 SE (gone)
    2000 Land Rover Discovery II (gone)
    1999 BMW M3c

  8. #7
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Gentleman,
    Thanks for sharing the research you all done and for pointing me in the right direction on this project!!

    Yes, to an extent EPA certification is important. I live in the Draconian state of California, and under current SMOG/CARB laws all kits must be EPA certified to be sold or installed in my state, as I understand it. Kits in from oversea are cost prohibitive currently due to the very weak nature of the US dollar. The Technocarb kits do offer a great potential to solve this problem if their kits are well built! I am eager to find out more on their offerings and anyone's experience with them! This is a no brainer, with the exception of how to get my ROVER past the Bi-annual SMOG certification. (Aside from moving out of California. Granted, the easiest solution. )

    I have a few nagging questions about operating these CNG, LPG systems at high altitudes. I go camping and off roading in the Sierra Mountians often. The operating altitudes are often 6000 to 9000ft and was interested in any input on or problems with these systems operation at altitude? Thanks again to you all.
    Seth

  9. #8
    FOUNDING MEMBER
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    a CNG kit will run $4-5000+tank costs becaue of the higher pressures BUT cng is about 35 cents/gallon equivalent, so at 100mi/day it may be worth it. a "home filling station" to fill off of your house supply is about $4k again.

    As far as California goes I don't know how to deal with that, but the rest of the country it shouldn't be an issue. perhaps once enough p38's are on LPG in the US that will qualify as a test base...

  10. #9
    SITE ADMINISTRATOR RRToadHall's Avatar
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Quote Originally Posted by shupack
    As far as California goes I don't know how to deal with that, but the rest of the country it shouldn't be an issue. perhaps once enough p38's are on LPG in the US that will qualify as a test base...
    You might want to add Washington and Oregon to that list soon. Both states have been wanting to require emissions to meet or EXCEED California's. It's been struck down twice here in Washington because Federal requirements cannot be superseded by state regulations. However since California has set precedent in this arena it is on round three of the battle. If enacted, Washington State would have the strictest emission regulations in the US with Oregon matching California.
    My mind is aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention.

  11. #10
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Quote Originally Posted by sethster
    Kits in from oversea are cost prohibitive currently due to the very weak nature of the US dollar.
    I suspect you blokes in the USA have had it so good for so long that you don't the prices of things elsewhere.

    Our dollar has improved to be almost on par with yours but the cost of an LPG conversion isn't prohibitive to us. The price of our cars is twice yours, the price of our fuel is at least 50% more than yours, vehicle registration costs are higher here - and I assume insurance would also be higher, Income tax is higher, too.

    I look at prices of goods and food in the USA and am genuinely amazed how cheap the USA is.
    Ron Beckett
    1995 Range Rover HSE 4.6 V8 auto
    2007 Yamaha XJR1300
    2006 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom

    RIP Bucko (1979-2008 - Riding on forever)
    http://p38arover.com/lee_pix/bike_caricature-avatar.jpg

  12. #11
    LEGACY VENDOR 996TURBO's Avatar
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    Re: Relief for high fuel costs? USA Built CNG,LNG,LPG kits...

    Quote Originally Posted by p38arover
    Quote Originally Posted by sethster
    Kits in from oversea are cost prohibitive currently due to the very weak nature of the US dollar.
    I suspect you blokes in the USA have had it so good for so long that you don't the prices of things elsewhere.

    Our dollar has improved to be almost on par with yours but the cost of an LPG conversion isn't prohibitive to us. The price of our cars is twice yours, the price of our fuel is at least 50% more than yours, vehicle registration costs are higher here - and I assume insurance would also be higher, Income tax is higher, too.

    I look at prices of goods and food in the USA and am genuinely amazed how cheap the USA is.
    Same thing for me.
    As an example, a pair of Levi's costs around 30-50 USD in USA and the same is around 150 - 180 USD in Europe. Isn't that crazy ?
    1997 P38 4.6
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