"Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer - Page 2
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Thread: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

  1. #16
    FRESHMAN ROVER RRHSELux's Avatar
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    I fixed this a while ago for my friend and knock on wood that mine doesn't fail, but she seems to really like the fix: Pull the number 18 fuse and blow it (connect it to something you know will blow it with destroying the entire fuse housing). Solder a wire to each prong and then solder both an inline fuse of the same strength and a toggle button of your choice into the line. Prong, Toggle, In-line Fuse, Prong. Give yourself enough line (wire) to mount the toggle inside the glove box or underneath the dash similar to a "valet" switch from the 80's alarms. Yes, you'll have to push the toggle and wait 20 seconds before starting, but there's now an added level of security to your truck and it cost you $5 at Radio Shack.
    "Where's the Rest of this Moose?" -Arthur Bach

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  3. #17
    NEWBIE
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    Quote Originally Posted by Attie View Post
    smanaces
    I'v read of this problem on another post it's 2004 - key won't turn in ignition on the second page 4th post there is a link to photo where a person took drastic action.
    Link to photo http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/photos/L322lock.pdf
    Hole post worth a read Attie
    Does anyone know if that drill mod actually works. I have a ton of friends that would love to automate the solution rather than having to have a tacky looking button.

  4. #18
    LEGACY VENDOR
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    I did the drill mod on my 2004 car and it worked. So far so good.
    2001 P38 4.6 Vogue. 2002 P38 4.6 Vogue
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  5. #19
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer


  6. #20
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    I'm glad that it worked for you, I tried it and the silicon spray shorted out the ecu and kept blowing fuse #18, lucky for me I had a spare column and installed it. I'll take the other one apart and see if I can fix it by cleaning it up with some electric contact cleaner. I think the lubricant screwed it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghur View Post
    I did the drill mod on my 2004 car and it worked. So far so good.
    ______________
    Range Rover
    L322 4.4 2003
    Ex-P38A 4.0 1997
    Ex-R.R.C. 3.9 1994

  7. #21
    SOPHOMORE ROVER
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    So I read tonight that RSW Solutions is working on a fix for this....Check out the "News" link on his site.
    05 HSE 4.4 (Daily, Pure Joy)
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    A few boring BMW's for the kids....(E30, E36, E46, E53)

  8. #22
    SOLIHULL ROVER linuxfreakus's Avatar
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    If anyone can figure this out it is Storey. He completely designed and wrote the software for AllComms in about the same time that I managed to figure out less than a quarter of the functionality he did on my own (his project had gone dark for a while so I thought I might need to DIY or else fork over $$$ for the real LR system). It would be fantastic if there could be an option to repair these things properly, especially as it sounds like they've stopped making the '03-'05 version.
    2004 Range Rover Westminster (past)
    2007 Range Rover SC (current)
    Massachusetts, USA

  9. #23
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    After I took my column apart I realized that I had drilled too far, the drill bit went right into the small plunger windings shorting it out!!! Just be careful if your gona drill!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zubi View Post
    I'm glad that it worked for you, I tried it and the silicon spray shorted out the ecu and kept blowing fuse #18, lucky for me I had a spare column and installed it. I'll take the other one apart and see if I can fix it by cleaning it up with some electric contact cleaner. I think the lubricant screwed it up.
    ______________
    Range Rover
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    Ex-P38A 4.0 1997
    Ex-R.R.C. 3.9 1994

  10. #24
    SOLIHULL ROVER linuxfreakus's Avatar
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    Hey guys, I was just searching for some other stuff and happened upon some interesting info on another site regarding this "not serviceable" steering lock ECU which is in a housing fitted with "non removable" pins. This fellow managed to remove the pins by spinning them on a 2mm diamond drill bit and pulling them at the moment the bit bites in the pin.

    Once the cover is removed, the ECU is simply clipped to the steering lock and has two small plugs attached which also lead into the steering lock. Removal of the ECU is simply a case of unplugging the two connectors and unclipping it from the steering lock. It can then be swapped with a new one without removing the steering column.

    "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ 00." - Dealer-steering_lock_ecu.jpg

    These are the "non-removable" pins

    "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ 00." - Dealer-non_removable_pins_steering_column.jpg

    Now it seems that this ECU might be a bit more serviceable than they say it is

    The tricky part will be figuring out how to find this ECU without ordering a whole steering column!! There are places where you can send ECUs and they will repair them with a warranty, but not sure if they would take this one or not... just throwing this out there in case it helps someone else.
    2004 Range Rover Westminster (past)
    2007 Range Rover SC (current)
    Massachusetts, USA

  11. #25
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    From each one I've seen, the ECU itself is not at fault, but a mechanical failure of the securing magnet solenoid, which is manufactured by Kuhnke, but BMW owns the rights to the design, and they wouldn't be able to sell them to anyone even if they were still able to manufacture them.
    Dave
    Land Rover Master Tech
    Independent Land Rover Specialists
    Chevy Chase, MD

  12. #26
    SOLIHULL ROVER linuxfreakus's Avatar
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    Hmm, well thats too bad... in the case of that guy, replacing the board did work (but he bought a whole column to get one).
    2004 Range Rover Westminster (past)
    2007 Range Rover SC (current)
    Massachusetts, USA

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuxfreakus View Post
    in the case of that guy, replacing the board did work
    Interesting, and I've waded through a bunch of discussions on this, but don't think I came across that one... If you still have it handy, mind posting/PMing a link to that.
    Dave
    Land Rover Master Tech
    Independent Land Rover Specialists
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  14. #28
    SOLIHULL ROVER linuxfreakus's Avatar
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    Here is the link to the other site:

    http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/st...cu-234273.html

    Does not contain much info not included here, I just pulled the relevant bits and figured it is safer than using a link since links can go away over time

    If this ever happens to me, I'll have to diagnose whether the signal from the ecu is getting sent to the solenoid or not. It is really too bad they can't sell these parts by themselves. I'm sure if you pressed them on it they'd fall back to some sort of "liability" excuse. I don't really buy it, but I've been told things like that in the past when trying to get dealers to sell me things which I know the part numbers for but you can't normally buy.
    2004 Range Rover Westminster (past)
    2007 Range Rover SC (current)
    Massachusetts, USA

  15. #29
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    From what I've seen on several now, and will have another to check with here shortly thanks to Zubi, is that the solenoid, pictured below, starts to bind.

    "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ 00." - Dealer-lockingsolenoid.jpg

    The pin that holds the Locking Bolt in the unlocked position(blue part) has lateral pressure applied to it by the bolt whenever the column is unlocked. This pushes the back half of the solenoid(which has a small magnet clipped on it for the two internal Hall effect sensors that are built in) in the opposite direction, and causes the magnet to bind in the sensor's bore. Eventually it breaks, and either still moves fine, just without the magnet attached(not sending the position signal back to the SCL ECU) or binds up to where the solenoid action can not overcome.

    Most of the time it fails with the column unlocked, which is the solenoid's non-energized state, as this is when the lateral load of the 'bolt' is acting on it, and the solenoid can not pull it back and allow the column to lock. The electrical reset (fuse 18 ) will work in this case, as once the SCL ECU is powered back up, it sees the Hall effect sensors in the unlocked position, and does not request movement. The reset needs to be done each key cycle, as it will fault out as soon as it sees that it cannot lock the column.
    I have seen a few(far less common) fail with the column locked. I have seen this from both the sensor magnet binding, just middle of the bore, and from the magnet being completely detached. When it is completely detached the solenoid still works properly, and the column will unlock when the key is inserted, however it will not unlock the ignition key, as it does not see the solenoid(securing magnet) change to the correct position, and the column will relock itself.

    I don't know if a software fix will work on this, reasoning being that it will need the SCL ECU to drive the locking bolt motor to an unlocked position, or do nothing at all if column is dead unlocked, and then not do anything at all with the column lock, but still unlock the ignition each time. Also, if it failed in the locked position, there would need to be a manual override to the column lock, even if software is able to overcome the normal unlock procedure.

    Where I am at with this, is physically and permanently unlocking the column, and feeding false signals back to the SCL ECU. I have not been able to find a source for a solenoid that has the same sensor set up as what is needed(Kuhnke HS7378 ) and with similar dimensions to allow it to work properly. At first I was against the idea of having the column permanently unlocked, but after some thought realized that every L322 after mid-07 do not have a locking column(or ignition cylinder for that matter)
    Dave
    Land Rover Master Tech
    Independent Land Rover Specialists
    Chevy Chase, MD

  16. #30
    SOLIHULL ROVER linuxfreakus's Avatar
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    Re: "Key wont turn = need new steering column @ $4000." - Dealer

    Quote Originally Posted by RoverGuy7 View Post
    Where I am at with this, is physically and permanently unlocking the column, and feeding false signals back to the SCL ECU. I have not been able to find a source for a solenoid that has the same sensor set up as what is needed(Kuhnke HS7378 ) and with similar dimensions to allow it to work properly. At first I was against the idea of having the column permanently unlocked, but after some thought realized that every L322 after mid-07 do not have a locking column(or ignition cylinder for that matter)
    I see no reason why you couldn't fool the ECU like this if the steering can be permanently unlocked. Just a matter of knowing that the signals are which the ECU is expecting and designing something to deliver those... possibly even using a different solenoid of similar design mounted someplace else which does not really do anything. Would have to take a closer look at it but not sure I'd want to take apart my steering column which currently is working fine!

    I must have one of the early '07 because I still hear it unlock and I don't have the newer style flip key.
    2004 Range Rover Westminster (past)
    2007 Range Rover SC (current)
    Massachusetts, USA

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