Transmission slipping
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Thread: Transmission slipping

  1. #1
    FRESHMAN ROVER Gorf's Avatar
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    Transmission slipping

    I've been spending the morning reading about transmission issues with the ZF 5HP24. My '05 now has a condition that is slowly getting worse. At a sustained speed, or on a hill with a gradual slope, with just a minimal amount of throttle input I can generate that "growling" sound (I don't know exactly how to describe it) from the transmission that has been discussed on here. Additionally I can feel the power surging, but the engine RPM isn't really changing. I'm pretty sure what I am feeling is slipping in the transmission. As the growling sound in the tranny gets worse, the slipping gets worse. The two are clearly interlinked. However gear shifts are still pretty smooth and with some additional throttle input to raise RPM's the sound and slipping goes away. I have noticed the occasional small jolt of what feels like the tranny catching up to the throttle input from a stop of very slow speeds. But nothing like that "slamming" into gears that others on the forum have reported.

    Is impending doom in my future? Is this worth pulling the tranny and rebuilding it or am I missing something simpler? I still carry an extended warranty, so if I need a tranny swap/rebuild I'm probably going to try to get them to cover it. But I'm just curious what the opinions are here about what might be going on.

    Phil! Help a brother out! If I can get my 5HP24 into my carry on luggage, can I come visit you for a week?
    me drivem '05 RR HSE. *grunt*
    Gorf

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  3. #2
    JUNIOR ROVER LEBoyd's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    I have 108k on my 04 and expect the transmission to fail someday (later is always better because there's never a convenient time). One question I had is whether the ZF6HP24 (the six speed version) is a swap without too much trouble? I suspect there would be some programming changes, but will it physically "plug-n-play"?

    Another question is whether it's advisable. Getting the 6 would help with mpg, but would it create more problems when towing?
    2004 L322, 265/50R20 Yokohama tires. "Mrs. Jones" ("We've got a thing going on")

  4. #3
    LEGACY VENDOR
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    @ Gorf
    Yes, your symptoms sound very much like the torque converter lock-up clutch wear issue that has been much discussed on here recently. As DrRangelove mentioned in a previous post, it’s interesting how there’s been a sudden rash of this problem just in the past year as our ’02-’05 V8 models hit the 100,000+ mile mark. The engine speed change I have mentioned previously is just a slight wavering of the rev counter needle in sympathy with the noise - only by a couple of hundred rpm. You need to stare at the needle to see it.

    In my case, replacing the torque converter with a re-manufactured unit immediately fixed the vibration issue. The torque converter is separate to the transmission and there’s no need to open up the transmission to swap it out, though the complete transmission and transfer box assembly has to be dropped from the vehicle to provide access. This is a five hour job and any competent garage should be able to handle it. Be aware, though, that re-manufacturing the 5HP24 torque converter is a specialist job as the LUC is friction welded in place in a preloaded condition – you therefore need to be sure to source your replacement unit from a reputable company.

    @ LEBoyd
    I think retrofitting a 6HP26 would be fraught with difficulty. Physically, the rear-face-of-block bolt pattern, starter motor position, flexplate mounting, etc. for the BMW M62 engine will be completely different to the L322 Jaguar/Ford engines, and the transfer box was also changed when the 6-speed was introduced. The BMW version of the 6HP26 (for the X5) uses a different transfer box. More significantly though, the control system/ECU/CAN bus issues will be huge, I would imagine.

    Phil
    2003 4.4l V8 Range Rover Vogue

  5. #4
    JUNIOR ROVER LEBoyd's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    Well, I was expecting your answer, Phil, as I had not seen a lot of threads talking about how excited other owners were with their 6HP26 swap
    2004 L322, 265/50R20 Yokohama tires. "Mrs. Jones" ("We've got a thing going on")

  6. #5
    FRESHMAN ROVER Gorf's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    Quote Originally Posted by RRPhil View Post
    In my case, replacing the torque converter with a re-manufactured unit immediately fixed the vibration issue. The torque converter is separate to the transmission and there’s no need to open up the transmission to swap it out, though the complete transmission and transfer box assembly has to be dropped from the vehicle to provide access. This is a five hour job and any competent garage should be able to handle it. Be aware, though, that re-manufacturing the 5HP24 torque converter is a specialist job as the LUC is friction welded in place in a preloaded condition – you therefore need to be sure to source your replacement unit from a reputable company.
    Yep and I am sneaking up on 100K. Pardon my slow brain (it's only 16:00 here so i'm only on beer number 4 here at work) but LUC = Lock Up Converter? I assume that any well skilled tranny shop could do this work? It isn't something that has to go to a LR specialist? Although I'm sure my local LR shop knows who to call. Good to know that for now it's just the torque converter. That shouldn't be awful...
    me drivem '05 RR HSE. *grunt*
    Gorf

  7. #6
    FRESHMAN ROVER DrRangelove's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    LUC = Lock Up Clutch, which is a part of the Torque Converter unit... incidentally, a remanufactured unit costs about 900 bucks up here in Canada and my mechanic was able to source an LR one from the UK for $1200... assuming my warranty company approves, I'll defintiely be going for the new TC. Mine should be going in in the next week or so - I'll report back with the results.
    '03 RR HSE
    Vancouver Island, Canada

  8. #7
    FRESHMAN ROVER Gorf's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    Well my specialty LR shop did me good, but not completely. Biggs here locally was able to reproduce the problem and consulted with their transmission shop that they work closely with. The shop did some initial testing and found some issues that prompted for a rebuild. Lots of filings in the tranny fluid and additional bad signs once they got in there. So 3 weeks later I got the rig back with a freshly rebuilt transmission. On my first drive home the condition completely reappeared!! So I have to assume that the tranny shop rebuilt the guts, but didn't touch the torque converter?? Getting frustrated at this now and disappointed. So I am going to call Biggs back and have another go at this.

    I'm also not overly thrilled with the rebuild. Today while trying to get the jump on passing around a slow moving truck, the tranny downshifted and something banged so hard I would have thought I got rear-ended. So that's not good either.
    me drivem '05 RR HSE. *grunt*
    Gorf

  9. #8
    FRESHMAN ROVER
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    I think a good Indy would have known about the issues with the torque converter on these things and would have started from there. Sure you have to pull the tranny to replace the TC but I think I would have left the tranny guts alone, replace the TC and put it all back together. Especially if the miles on it are decent.
    My 04 is experiencing similar symptoms but I've read of guys driving 50K miles plus after they notice the symptoms and are still going. Jim
    2004 HSE Adriatic Blue 155K Miles And Counting
    2009 Ford F250 Super Duty Powerstroke Diesel
    2008 Commander (Wife's)
    1990 RRC (rear ended and sold)
    1995 RRC LWB (sold)

  10. #9
    SITE ADMINISTRATOR RRToadHall's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    I've known Jim for about 25 years. He has worked on cars for me back to the early days of my Sterling 825 & 827. Bigg's is the only place my Rover goes on those rare occasions I can't or won't do something myself. I would never flinch at the opinions of Jim, his brother or his crew. Sending a rig out to a specialized third party vendor such as a tyre shop, upholstery shop, professional detailer, or in your case a tranny shop is simply good customer service on their part. Definatley advise Jim what has happened, however the tranny shop is the group that should have diagnosed a convertor, not Jim. With their excellent reputation in the area I am sure thigns will work out for the best.
    My mind is aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention.

  11. #10
    FRESHMAN ROVER Gorf's Avatar
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    Re: Transmission slipping

    I don't hold anything against Biggs crew certainly. Those guys have more than earned my trust. Bruce and Jen and I talked about them sending it to Eastside Transmission, and that they trust them to do the tranny work. I'm just frustrated that it seems like the actual issue got missed.
    me drivem '05 RR HSE. *grunt*
    Gorf

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